Al Carns, the former armed forces minister, has described the Ministry of Defence (MoD) as having 'unbelievable' waste and inefficiency. He stated that every time he would 'turn a stone over' at the MoD, he would encounter another shock.
Carns' Criticism of Legacy Programmes
Carns expressed anger over the unwillingness to confront the sunk costs of legacy programmes. He suggested that mismanaged initiatives, such as investment in tanks, should be scrapped in favor of new technology. In an interview with the Guardian, the former special forces soldier emphasized that Labour had 'one chance' to change and seek new leadership, but was scathing about the current situation.
Call for Policy Debate
Carns, who quit as a defence minister after John Healey resigned as defence secretary, has been discussed as a potential leadership candidate. However, he stated he is more interested in sparking a policy debate than becoming prime minister. He warned that if the policy debate is mishandled, Labour will not win in two-and-a-half years, potentially handing the country to a far-right party.
Carns, 46, said he fundamentally disagreed with the direction of the defence investment plan (Dip). He clarified that he did not quit to support Healey but to make his own public interventions. Healey had criticized the Treasury for being unwilling to adequately fund defence and the prime minister for failing to force tough decisions.
Inefficiency and Bureaucracy
Carns noted that despite his prior experience at the MoD, he was shocked by the inefficiency. 'It is unbelievable. You turn a stone over and get another shock – how has that been allowed to go on?' He described layers of bureaucracy that now cost more than the products themselves. He said the current investment plan, which new defence secretary Dan Jarvis will publish before July's Nato summit, is a typical example of the system's flaws.
He criticized the MoD's continued spending on legacy programmes that are becoming obsolete due to the difficulty of confronting sunk costs. 'Take tanks for example – 100 to 200 tanks isn't the most useful way of spending our money. They were ordered ages ago, and if you cancel them now, that's sunk cost … that's cost us £700m. Well, I think these are the difficult discussions we have to make – the cost of running them is in the hundreds of millions, and so I would rather take that chunk of money … and put it into those innovative systems that we need to buy.'
Need for Overhaul
Government sources have indicated that Jarvis will be given an opportunity to 'reprioritise' aspects of the Dip. However, Carns stressed the need for root-and-branch changes. 'We have the fifth biggest defence budget in the world. Do you think we get a good bang for buck? We need to completely and utterly overhaul our procurement. We need to make sure a large proportion of the resource and money is spent this side of 2030, to make sure that if we get caught in a geographical confrontation, we're ready.'
Carns said any new leader or party in government would face the same challenges. When asked if there was appetite to change from the current leadership, Carns replied 'No.' He acknowledged the difficulty of discussing defence spending with the public, who expect a Labour government to invest in the NHS, schools, and jobs. 'I go back to my constituency and say, what's the biggest problem you've got today? It's cost of living. They can't get an appointment with the NHS. They don't mention security at all.'
Reframing the Conversation
He said any new leader must reframe the conversation around national resilience, alongside policies on improving mental health, youth unemployment, and prison reoffending. 'The end state must be a stronger and more effective nation. This is about leadership and prioritisation. At the moment what I see is a lot of money going into unpackaged initiatives, thousands of announcements.'
Carns expressed deep concern about how instability at the top of government and the potential leadership vacuum is viewed by the UK's enemies. 'Moscow is probably rubbing its belly. I think it looks at the social division that we're having in the UK and the amplification through social media as success for its propaganda campaign.'
He intends to spark a policy debate rather than enhance his own leadership credentials. When asked if he wanted to be prime minister, Carns said: 'I think anyone who wants to have that job doesn't understand that job. This isn't about ego, this is obviously about service.' However, he said he does not regret swapping his military career for frontline politics. 'I did have a bit of a moment the other day when I was walking home from parliament. I loved my job. It was my passion. It was all I wanted to do when I was young. I looked back at it and said, was it worth it leaving the military, a really good career? And have I delivered enough to justify that impact on my life? And I came to a conclusion, absolutely. I've delivered more change in this job and nudged the system further than I would ever have done within my last job.'
