BBC Breakfast presenter Charlie Stayt engaged in a heated exchange with Reform UK deputy leader Richard Tice on Friday morning, following the party's defeat in the Makerfield by-election.
By-Election Results
Labour's Andy Burnham secured victory in the Makerfield by-election with a margin of 9,000 votes, pushing Reform UK into second place. The seat has been a Labour stronghold for over a century.
Stayt pressed Tice on the loss, asking: "What went wrong for Reform?" Tice responded by congratulating Burnham on holding a safe Labour seat, noting that voters were motivated by a desire to remove Prime Minister Keir Starmer.
"It's interesting, what people have voted for is what they voted for in the local elections, which is to get Starmer out. In voting for Andy Burnham, they've reinforced that they want the Prime Minister gone," Tice said.
Clash Over Accountability
Stayt reiterated his question, seeking acknowledgment of Reform's shortcomings. Tice maintained that the seat was inherently safe for Labour, adding that the party's vote share had increased since the last general election.
"As I say, this was a safe seat. Has been for a hundred years. We gave it a very good go; our vote share increased since the last general election," Tice explained.
Stayt pushed back, stating: "You've said that already, that part you've already said. Mr Tice, no. I don't want to get bogged down in things."
Tice countered: "That's the answer to your question. There's no point re-answering. There's no point in asking the same question; I'll give you the same answer. I'll be very clear too. It's a safe Labour seat, and I've answered your question."
Reflection on Defeat
The BBC host highlighted the importance of reflecting on lessons learned from a defeat, rather than focusing solely on the seat's historical voting patterns. Tice, however, insisted that Reform UK remains the only party capable of defeating the current Labour government.
"The answer is, this is a safe Labour seat, they were always expected to win with a high-profile candidate. We were always the underdogs. We fought a very hard campaign. Of course we would've loved to have won it, our reflection is, there is only one party that can beat the hard socialist currently in power, and that's Reform," Tice concluded.
BBC Breakfast airs weekdays from 6am on BBC One.
