Prime Minister Andy Burnham has insisted he wants to see the cost of welfare fall but has refused to put a number on how much it should be reduced by, arguing that making "brutal cuts" without considering the wider consequences is the wrong approach.
In an interview with ITV News marking his first 100 days in office, Mr Burnham said he "of course" wanted welfare spending to decline but rejected the idea of setting a specific target.
Prime Minister rejects cuts agenda
Asked how much he wanted the cost of welfare to fall by, Mr Burnham said: "I come at it a different way. I want to talk about how many people am I going to help into work? If you go at it with a number like you've just said, I think this is exactly what I was saying before about politics done the wrong way.
"And the changes I'm trying to bring, they've done that before: 'Oh, we need to cut this amount'. And then straight away it's into a kind of a cuts agenda without really thinking through how do you help people from where they are to a better position."
He added: "If you come at it through that normal Westminster mindset of saying 'we must cut x amount from the system', well, it will fail again. And that's what we've seen in politics in recent times."
Conservative target criticised
The Prime Minister suggested the Conservative target of cutting the cost of welfare by £36 billion a year meant the opposition was "putting a number before people".
"I will say to you, if they were to do that, there'd be another big number over here for the utter chaos that they cause in people's lives," he added.
Mr Burnham said he was pioneering "radical changes" to the way young people are supported into the world of work, criticising a school system that is "overly focused on the university route and doesn't give a pass for young people who want to move towards work and get technical qualifications".
He said: "We have an approach that doesn't support people when they need it and then pays billions to sustain them in an unproductive position.
"That is the radical change that we need. And that's how you make the saving. You don't make the saving just to go to brutal cuts, because if you just go to brutal cuts… you will leave people in absolute crisis and then they will be going into other services in a chaotic way.
"So, I'm pioneering a different approach and I'm going to stick to my guns on it. I'm going to stick to my guns on everything that I believe as Prime Minister."
Welfare spending forecasts
The comments come after Chancellor John Healey suggested that Labour would bring down the benefits bill ahead of a general election, remarks that Treasury officials later backtracked on, refusing to put a timeline on the commitment.
Welfare spending is forecast to rise by £19 billion over this year to £353 billion, with the Office for Budget Responsibility predicting it will reach £431 billion by the 2031-32 financial year, largely driven by health-related and pensioner benefits.
Ministers are awaiting the outcome of two reviews before committing to sweeping changes. The Timms review, led by work and pensions minister Sir Stephen Timms, is investigating changes to the personal independence payment, while the Milburn review, led by former minister Alan Milburn, is looking at how to get more young people into work, training or education.
Shadow work and pensions secretary Helen Whately said: "Andy Burnham would rather defend a bloated benefits bill than tackle the spiralling cost of welfare.
"You cannot keep pouring taxpayers' money into welfare and pretend that is a plan for fixing the country.
"Labour's Work and Pensions Secretary said himself that all Labour MPs want to do is tax people more to pay for more benefits.
"Only the Conservatives have a plan to cut the welfare bill and deliver £36 billion of savings per year to make sure the system works for the taxpayers who pay for it."
Elsewhere in the interview, Mr Burnham revealed he has spoken to his predecessor Sir Keir Starmer and former chancellor Rachel Reeves since assuming power, saying: "We've exchanged messages and we've always had a good working relationship. We obviously had differences at times, for certain. But, yeah, I do keep in touch with people."
ITV News's programme Burnham: Inside The First 100 Days will be broadcast on Tuesday night.
