Labour minister Stephen Doughty was branded "embarrassing" and accused of "waffling" during a heated exchange with Ed Balls and Susanna Reid on Good Morning Britain. The clash came a day after Prime Minister Andy Burnham claimed Russia interfered with the Brexit referendum through social media campaigns.
It marks the first time the UK government has directly accused the Kremlin of using social media disinformation to interfere with British politics. Burnham's comments led Reid to question whether he was telling Brexit voters they were persuaded by Russia to vote that way.
Minister pressed on specifics
"No. The Prime Minister was speaking about Russia's wider attempts to interfere in our democratic processes, including in the referendum, but also in many other ways, and we've seen them doing this not just in Britain, but across Europe and across the world," Doughty responded.
Reid interrupted the politician, urging him to stay on the subject of the Brexit referendum. She then directly asked how Russia interfered. Doughty replied: "Russia's been attempting to spread disinformation and division for many years in many different ways, and they're spending 1.5 billion this year alone on interference."
Interrupting once again, Reid remarked: "No, I'm talking about the Brexit referendum. What did Russia do in 2016 that interfered and meddled with the vote, and did it influence the outcome?"
Hosts challenge minister
The politician insisted he wasn't going to share specific details, adding: "Russia's been attempting to interfere in our processes for many years. We've understood this, but we haven't responded." Reid hit back: "Why are you not getting into specifics when the Prime Minister has just got into the specifics on the podcast?"
When Doughty argued that Burnham was speaking about attempts by Russia to interfere in the UK's democratic processes more broadly, Reid immediately shut him down. "No, he said, 'I asked the question coming to Downing Street, was there interference in the 2016 referendum from Russia? I've had the clear answer that, yes, there was.' So I'm just asking, what was that interference, and did it influence the vote?" Reid asked.
In response, Doughty claimed that Russia has been "attempting" to interfere, but has not succeeded. "I think that voters, especially those who voted for Brexit, would want to know what that interference was, and in what ways the Prime Minister claimed that it influenced the outcome," the presenter retorted.
Balls loses patience
When the politician once again claimed that Russia had failed to interfere, Reid challenged him, asking whether he was suggesting Burnham's comments were wrong. "Was he wrong then? Was he wrong when he said that he asked if there was interference and got the clear answer that there was?" she asked.
Doughty repeated his original response again, telling the pair: "The Prime Minister has been very clear about Russian attempts to interfere in all of our democratic processes. They have been doing this for many years." Reid snapped back: "With respect, minister, you are muddying the waters, not clarifying them."
She later accused Doughty of contradicting himself, before asking once again what the specific interference was by Russia which could have influenced the outcome of the referendum vote. "The Prime Minister was very clear that Russia has been attempting to interfere in a number of democratic processes," Doughty said, leading Balls to step in.
"Honestly, Mr Doughty, this is embarrassing!" he fumed. "It's really bad for politics when you just blatantly don't answer the question on something so important, and go back to a nonsensical line which is contradicted by what the Prime Minister just said." Balls demanded: "Either answer Susanna's question, or just say I'm not going to. This waffle is embarrassing!"
Doughty replied: "It's not waffle at all, Ed. We are very clear that Russia is spending a huge amount of money on attempting to influence our processes, and have been doing so for many years, and that's why we are taking robust action against it." Realising they weren't going to get an answer to their question, the pair called time on the interview.
