The Pogues co-founders Spider Stacy and James Fearnley have answered reader questions about late frontman Shane MacGowan, anti-Irish prejudice, and the controversy over Fairytale of New York.
In an interview with the Guardian, the pair discussed the band's early live reputation, MacGowan's songwriting process, and his departure from the group in 1991.
Early gigs and chaotic shows
Stacy recalled a secret gig in a pub in Nunhead last Christmas, which reminded him of the band's early days playing to small, close audiences. He singled out the Hope & Anchor in Islington, where they played to about 35 people in 1983, but a month later the atmosphere had transformed. "After that, at gigs, there were clothes landing on stage," he said.
Fearnley added that medical equipment and crutches were also thrown. Stacy noted that on the reunion tour, someone in Sydney threw a prosthetic leg that still had a boot on it.
MacGowan's personal experiences
Asked about MacGowan's first single, 1984's Dark Streets of London, which references electroconvulsive therapy, Stacy said the singer did not go into detail about its effect. "As a teenager, it was probably enormously distressing, but Shane had a mordant humour about it," he said.
Stacy described MacGowan's generosity towards homeless people, saying he would give away pocketfuls of change or banknotes. He also noted the anti-Irish prejudice that existed in London at the time, saying the band may have played a part in changing attitudes.
Songwriting and traditional music critics
Fearnley said that when MacGowan brought A Rainy Night in Soho to the band, he had dressed for the occasion and had the whole arrangement in his head. "It was an amazing experience," he said.
On the criticism from traditional Irish musicians, Stacy recalled an RTÉ radio Q&A with concertina player Noel Hill, who had strong opinions about Irish music. The traditional establishment thought the Pogues were "a bunch of chancers", but the criticism backfired when musicians like Christy Moore and Paddy Moloney supported them. The band later titled an instrumental Planxty Noel Hill, which Stacy said was a message meaning "fuck off, Noel Hill".
Peak period and MacGowan's departure
Stacy identified 1986 to 1988 as the band's peak period, up to If I Should Fall from Grace With God. "Even at the peaks, you can run out of oxygen or a rope can get frayed," he said.
On MacGowan's departure, Stacy said the singer plainly did not want to continue and his way of showing it was to get drunk. The band asked bassist Darryl Hunt to tell him he was sacked, and MacGowan's response was: "What took you so long?"
Stacy and co-founder Jem Finer both played on MacGowan's 1994 album The Snake. The reunion came about in 2000 when the band's accountant asked promoter Simon Moran about a possible reunion. Despite other promoters advising against it, Moran decided to go ahead. MacGowan later said he did not want to continue beyond the initial Christmas shows.
Life after Shane and new material
Stacy said Joe Strummer, who stood in for Phil Chevron in the late 1980s, was "a real shot in the arm" when he performed with the band. He recalled Strummer Sellotaping chord sheets to his guitar and walking on stage unannounced.
On the band's later work without MacGowan, Stacy said they had driven themselves into the ground creatively by the time of Pogue Mahone in 1996 and were dropped by their record company. "We'd had our time," he said.
Stacy said MacGowan had visited him and Finer with the idea of writing new songs, but nothing came of it. The band has recorded Gabrielle for MacGowan's tribute album, but Stacy said it would not be right to do new original music.
Fairytale of New York controversy
Stacy said the band never asked MacGowan to change a lyric, although the BBC asked him to alter a line in Fairytale of New York for Top of the Pops in 1992, which he did. In 2020, the BBC censored the song on Radio 1.
Stacy said he was not going to complain to the BBC after reading a gay man's account of being persecuted when drunk men bellowed the song's offensive lyric. When Laurence Fox tweeted about sending the "proper" version to the top of the charts, Stacy replied with a line from Brendan Behan's Borstal Boy, which went viral.
The band continues to perform the original version, noting that Phil Chevron was proudly gay in Ireland since 1977 and that gay friends and fans understood the context of the lyric. Stacy pointed out that the focus was on "faggot" while "old slut on junk" passed without comment.
Legacy and influence
Fearnley said MacGowan was "rascality personified, but one of the most inspiring people I ever came across". Stacy said he was sitting in New Orleans because of Shane, while Fearnley noted he was in Los Angeles. "In a weird way we're all manacled to Shane," he said.
On the new generation of Irish bands, Stacy praised Lankum, Lisa O'Neill, One Leg One Eye, ØXN, John Francis Flynn, Mary Wallopers, Junior Brother and Lucy O'Connell. Fearnley joked: "What took them so long?!"
The Pogues' European tour starts on 19 November at Tempodrom Berlin, and their UK and Ireland tour starts on 28 November at Portsmouth Guildhall.
