Former first minister Humza Yousaf has called for a "third party" to be brought in to break the constitutional log-jam between Holyrood and Westminster. He told the Record it was "not good for democracy" for the current impasse between the UK and Scottish Governments to continue.
Background to the referendum dispute
John Swinney has declared he wants an IndyRef2 to take place by the end of the current Scottish Parliament term in 2031, insisting such a vote would be justified as a pro-independence majority of MSPs was elected at May's election. But such an argument has been rejected by successive prime ministers, while Labour was returned to power at Westminster in 2024 with a clear manifesto commitment not to stage another referendum on the constitution.
The UK Supreme Court has also definitively ruled that Holyrood does not have the power to organise an IndyRef2 without prior agreement from the UK Government. The issue has flared up again in recent weeks after Swinney predicted Andy Burnham would be the last Prime Minister of the UK, but the Labour leader then used his conference party speech to declare he was "utterly determined" to prove the SNP leader wrong.
Yousaf's mediation proposal
Yousaf, who quit the Scottish Parliament ahead of May's election, was speaking ahead of next week's SNP conference in Aberdeen where Swinney is certain to repeat his demand for another vote. Asked if he thought 2031 was a realistic timescale for a referendum, Yousaf said: "You have to be ambitious when it comes to this goal.
"What we have to accept is there are two governments that are at an impasse. The Scottish Parliament has a strong mandate for another referendum. But you also have to accept the UK Government, given the ruling of the Supreme Court, has to grant permission first.
"I'm of the view the two governments should bring in a third party as an honest broker to mediate between the two, to say the impasse can't continue, it's not good for democracy. Now, there's a conversation to be had about who an honest broker would be.
"But what is that trigger to negotiation? Ultimately, there needs to be certainty about what that trigger should look like. I get the sense that Andy Burnham would not be completely closed off to that conversation."
Yousaf on his future and memoir
Yousaf said it would be "unhelpful" to stipulate his own view on what constitutes a trigger point for an IndyRef2. "You've got to go into the negotiation open-minded," he added. The ex-SNP leader also insisted he had "no immediate plans" to return to frontline politics after facing a turbulent year in charge of the country.
He added: "I would never rule out becoming involved in the future - in particular, when Scotland becomes an independent country. I would love to be part of a team that helps to build the institutions of an independent nation."
Asked if he missed the Scottish Parliament, he added: "I was in Hollywood for almost two decades, starting as a researcher in 2007 for Bashir Ahmad. After he passed away in 2009, I was working with Nicola and Alex, before being elected in my own right in 2011.
"I spent 15 years as an MSP and 12 years in government. It was a central part of my adult life. But there's another part of me that doesn't miss it in the slightest, because politics is stressful and it can be quite brutal.
"Plus, you can be a bit more free when you're on the outside to speak on issues. When you're a minister, you have a brief, and you have to focus on collective responsibility."
Yousaf spoke to the Record to mark the publication this month of his new memoir, Under Fire, which documents how his wife's parents came to be trapped in Gaza in October 2023. It also sets out how the Glasgow-born son of immigrants from Pakistan rose to become the first Muslim leader of a Western European nation.
